Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby idmolcom » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:22 pm

no_ta wrote:Idmolcom
The main problem we all have is is this form of collection legal/lawful, presumably in the beginning you were issued with a notice saying how much business rates you will have to pay, unfortunately this is the beginning of this contract thing.
What I am concerned with is the 'Kangaroo' court situation, they must have done a deal with magistrates on the basis that if they get the relevant docs served etc and agreed by the 'defaulter' they will rubber stamp any order accordingl purely on the say so of the council.
This smells badly of cover up and deceit, someone somewhere must know the law and what is going on is wrong, there needs to be a judicial review regarding the self issuing of summonses on the basis that it has come from a magistrates court.
Whilst we are at that point, if a magistrates court does not issue a proper summons, does that mean that there is some sort of legal black hole which they cannot close, what the hell is it, someone reading this must know?
Are magistrates accountable when it concerns cover up and deceit? If so there will be some heads rolling, hopefully

hi no_ta,

First of all summons relating to the Council are unlawful.
The reason being is, only the court can issue summons,
however there are certain exemptions where the Lord
Chancellor has powers to authorise suitable individuals
to do court business in certain circumstances. Check out
this link and read it :

"What this means is : Section 28 of the "Courts Act 2003"
is the culprit here, I suspect:
1)Rules may make provision enabling things authorised to be
done by, to or before a single justice of the peace to be done
instead by, to or before a justices' clerk...". John Hurst

Thanks to John Hurst who is probably the most knowledgeable
man on Statute Law in the UK.

There was a sneaky introduction that took place much to the
consternation to those who keep an eye on things. John and
several colleagues are working strategies to tackle the courts
and the Government on these issues.

The situation with the Kangaroo Court is NOT without merit.
I agree with you on that issue. However all is not lost.

You need to open your mind to any and all possibilities. Look
at the problem starting at the Kangaroos and work back from

Consider the court room and its furniture and layout. Look at
who sits where and what their functions are.

Right up front are the Magistrates, basically they have no
power at all and if you do things correctly you can have them
hot footing it off the bench. They are the least of your

Look down in front of the magistrates and you see the
clerk. The clerk is the most influential critter on the
scene. That is where the main engine of the court is.
He or she is either a solicitor or barrister. Don't let that
fool you. They are failures of the profession, as, if they
were any good they would be in private practice.
Needless to say their role is to advise the magistrates
about sentencing guidelines etc.

Now look to the left of the court you see the CPS
solicitor. He / She is the most vulnerable person in
the court. This is the weakest link in the chain of
command. So that is where you should focus your
attention. Get them off guard and if a witness is
present, you can start questioning them before the
magistrates come into the court. It unsettles the
CPS and also the Clerk.

What has all of this got to do with your problem you
are wondering.

Well being in court is like playing a game of football.
Managers go and watch other teams playing before
their team plays his opposition.

He susses out the strengths and weaknesses. Then
he plans the strategy of the forthcoming match.

It is the same here. However you now have a head
start. You are now aware of who does what and how.

Let the game begin.

If you want the game to finish early but with the
most effort you can tackle the issues as being described.

1) They call your name and you enter the court. Keep
your mouth shut.

2) Have plenty of paper with you so you can shuffle around
as if looking for notes. This is so you can delay the time
you take to answer any questions they throw at you.

3) When asked for your name, be silent and start to
shuffle your paperwork. Ask the court permission to allow
you to collect your thoughts.Give a few seconds before you
answer the question.

Do not be too anxious to answer their first question.
Let them think you are rattled. When you feel a bit
more comfortable, walk away from your seat towards
the clerk and speak slowly, clearly with a louder tone
in your voice than normal.

You answer while looking straight into the Clerks eyes.
That is who I am. Walk back to your seat and sit down.

Now the CPS is going to get nervous. He has every reason
to be, as, he knows the game is up you have cracked the
code. Most likely he is going to turn his palms up and walk
out the court. There is no CPS to prosecute, the judge /
magistrates now have an 800kg Gorilla they have to face.
It is better for them to retreat than fight. Retreat is the
easiest option for them.

If the above scenario is too much for you to cope with,
lets look at option 2

Option 2.

Let the court proceed as normal without the jurisdictional
challenge. You are probably thinking I have gone mad.

Stay with me for a while. Let everything progress as if
you are a fool, 'cos that is what they think you are. It is
like playing Poker. Do not disclose your hand. Your time
will come. Patience is a virtue, use it to your full

When it comes to the time for liability orders to be made
stand and accept the order. Now say I wish to appoint the
council solicitor as your fiduciary. Now the jerk from the
council has a very very tight corner to negotiate. He will
not succeed.

The reason being is as a member of the Law Society or
The BAR Registry he has to accept the appointment. No
ifs buts or maybes.

Thank the court for their kind consideration and leave

You have effectively killed Goliath.

Game set and match 3-0 to you. Go and do whatever it is
you do to celebrate. Mine is a glass of coke without ice
but with lemon.

Hope this helps.

You have to be prepared and practice this every day. It
has to flow naturally without fear. After all they are just
human or not as the case may be.


The old fool.
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby no_ta » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:49 pm

So are LA's appointed or approved and does a Magistrate have to be present, also what makes a summons authentic or legal?

Can we ask for the LA to prove their approval etc?

Very grateful for the information all good for strenthening our case when we have to do battle.
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Re: Result from my Summons for Business Rates

Postby no_ta » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:45 pm

I read through some of this until my eyes hurt:

The only part I could see of immediate interest was about Lay Justice, if that's it then how can a Plaintiff/Claimant also be the Justice?

No I do not accept that LA's can set up their own justice system, I think they are just going through a process which happens to coincide with our ignorance of the law, as usual.

It's a bit like me issuing my own MOT certificate.

Having said all that, have I read it somewhere that council tax goes to HM Treasury, business rates may be the same, and seeing how revenue collected via HMCS goes back to the Treasury, they have a vested interest in letting us swallow our own ignorance, and a little chuckle thrown in, nice one if thats how it is.
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