LTSB letter, response

Discuss all of your Banking, Finance and "Money" related issues here.

LTSB letter, response

Postby aliensong » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:36 am

Hi there

I posted about this on the thinkfree UK specific forum. One of the posters recommended that I post here, I hope that's OK.

I have a tacit agreement with LTSB concerning an alleged debt (unsecured personal loan). I had requested validation of the debt in the following way:
1. Validation of the debt (the actual accounting);

2. Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act 1882), addressed to me, Alan Southgate, not the government created legal entity denoted by the use of uppercase or capital letters;

3. A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.


I got the usual photo copies of the original agreement and a letter contesting my right to the requested information.

After sending the third and final letter and therefore, I believe, having a tacit agreement in place, I got a response. The relevant paragraphs are quoted below:
Dear Mr S---------

Thank you for your further letter dated 28 September 2009, addressed Eric Daniels. I'm sorry you remain unhappy with our response.

The specifics of your concern have been well documented, so I do not propose to trouble you by repeating the details again at this stage.

I'm advised by our legal department that, under English law we are under no obligation to provide you with either the information or the documentation you request. In these circumstances, I will not reply specifically to matters point by point. This is not and cannot be construed as acceptance of the terms you have suggested.

We consider that our agreement with you is valid. Under the terms of that agreement, to which you agreed, you are obliged to make the monthly payments. If you do not do so, we may have no option but to instruct our solicitors to issue proceedings to enforce the agreement.

Given the contents of your letters I am concerned that you may be obtaining advice as to your legal rights from a third party or internet website, which is incorrect. If followed it is entirely possible that this will cause you to breach the terms of your agreement.

You may have, for example, received misleading advice based on a purported procedure under the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 ("the Act"). If this is the case and you intend to rely on any such advice, please note that your agreement or any request for payment under that agreement is not a bill of exchange. Further, your "Letter of Request" is incapable in English Law of creating a liability by the bank and will not become a valid bill of exchange. Finally, the Act does not give any authority to any person, other than the Courts, to make an award against us. Any award purportedly created by anything other than the Court has no validity in English law.

If in error the Court makes an order permitting the enforcement of such an award, we will apply to set aside the award and the order and also ask the Court to make the person who applied for the order to enforce, responsible for the costs of our application to set aside.

Should you intend following the above course, we recommend that you seek independent advice.


I had used template letters from http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/ and was under the impression that once my tacit agreement was in place LTSB would be in "dishonour" and I would have no need to enter into further correspondance. I have had some conflicting advice that suggests I should always reply in some way in order to stay in honour my self.

I have written this response and I would like suggestions as to whether it is OK and if I need to respond in the first place.
Mr------------
--------------
--------------
Birmingham
B-------

October 21, 2009

Dear Mr -------

Thank you for your letter dated October 09, 2009.

I believe my request for information validating the alleged debt was reasonable. As you have failed to honour my reasonable request you have agreed to the following terms:

1. That the debt did not exist in the first place;
OR
2. It has already been paid in full;
AND
3. That any damages I suffer, you will be held culpable;
4. That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed;
5. You will no longer pursue this matter any further.

Please note that any and all further correspondence not adhering to my request will incur a fee schedule of £500 per reply

Yours sincerely




By: ****-*******: **********; Authorised Representative

No assured value, No liability. All Rights Reserved.


Thanks in advance for your time. :grin:
aliensong
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby rodgreenwell » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:32 am

Welcome aliensong...

Firstly, take a deep breath and relax.... the letter you have recieved from LTSB is a standard letter that is doing the rounds and almost word for word the same as I have recieved from Bos and NatWest... welcome to the club :hug:

Before responding however, just think for a moment... what have they actually said in their response... NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE.... Have they actually answered your reasonable request for information by giving you a substantive response... uhmmm NO!

What they have said is GO AWAY... YOU ARE WRONG.... SUGGESTED YOU WOULD GET COLLARED FOR COURT COSTS.... Blah, Blah, Blah.

Have you written to them a Notice offering "conditional acceptance" upon proof of claim and that you are willing to meet any lawful obligation that you (STRAWMAN) may owe upon proof of claim that they provide you with the information you have reasonably requested?... If not suggest that you make this one of the first paragraphs of your response...
Also:
1. Certified copy of contract documentation signed by both parties (including both sides of the application form) and reminding them that a valid contract needs to have (1) full disclosure (2) equal consideration (3) lawful terms and conditions and (4) Signed by both parties.
2. Validation of the debt by way of (1) copies that document and evidence the exact and proper accounting as to the source of the actual funds being loaned (2) details of whose asset(s) actually funded the loan (3) Evidence as to whether the funding was in place before the application was recieved or whether the application created the credit or loan.
3. Verification of any claim by way of invoice or sworn affidavit stating what money was leant, and to which party.

I would also suggest that you say something like.. Under OFT rules it is an unfair business practice to "fail to investigate/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed. If you are unable or unwilling to provide the reasonably requested documentation, please advise how this does not constitute a breach of these rules.

Give them a time frame maybe 7 days to complete. When/if they dishonour send a second notice.

There are loads of options letters and notices here on the forum... take a good look around and gain some understanding if this is all new to you.

Ask your questions... and keep the forum posted...
rodgreenwell
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Location: Budapest Hungary

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby ArturoDekko » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:53 am

Hi RG, would be a good idea if you read through this - http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=2021
You need to go to the notarised affidavit stage before things become Law. Although Notices have some validity, affidavits are much more powerful.
AD :sun:
S E E F O R Y O U R S E L F

Know yourself and you shall know the truth. The truth shall set you free.
User avatar
ArturoDekko
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby rodgreenwell » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:04 pm

Hi AD... have sent pm :grin: little confused :gasp:
rodgreenwell
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Location: Budapest Hungary

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby kevin » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:19 pm

and was under the impression that once my tacit agreement was in place LTSB would be in "dishonour" and I would have no need to enter into further correspondence


Unfortunately that only applies if your dealing with honourable people, if your dealing with crooks and thieves as you are then they just ignore you and continue trying to frighten you into paying...as they have done in that letter

The specifics of your concern have been well documented, so I do not propose to trouble you by repeating the details again at this stage.


Cheeky barstool

We consider that our agreement with you is valid


well you don't

If in error the Court makes an order


cocky arse

I had one recently from a DCA that said "Once judgement or decree has been granted the following can take place"

I happily explained to them that I felt they were slightly premature with their wording, "Once", "has" and "can" are wrong and that it should read "If judgement or decree were to be granted the following may take place"
I also told them that I'll be counter claiming against them

the wording is to get you scared...oh no!! they're taking me to court..I'd better just pay even though I know I'm right.
kevin
Newbie
Newbie
 

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby aliensong » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:21 am

Thanks for al of your replies :grin:

I'm a little confused however.
Have you written to them a Notice offering "conditional acceptance" upon proof of claim and that you are willing to meet any lawful obligation that you (STRAWMAN) may owe upon proof of claim that they provide you with the information you have reasonably requested?...


I have already gone through that process and LTSB have not supplied anything but a copy of the "agreement". If I send further notices, will I not be waiving my initial tacit agreement? Should I not just continue to politely remind them that they have not validated the debt? Can anyone hazard a guess as to what their next move will be. My impression is that if I continue to reply to their correspondence they will eventually pass the "debt" on to a third party who would be interlopers without proof of agency; if I don't respond then there is more chance of being hauled through the courts. Is that true?

Would it be helpful to post copies of the letters that i have sent so far?

ArturoDekko wrote:Hi RG, would be a good idea if you read through this - http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=2021
You need to go to the notarised affidavit stage before things become Law. Although Notices have some validity, affidavits are much more powerful.
AD :sun:

Thanks for that ArturoDekko, I have had a look through the thread, not in great depth yet. There is a lot of information there.


peace.
aliensong
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby ArturoDekko » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:42 am

The link I gave you takes you through the process of establishing the facts with Notices, as you have done, and then, if they are not listening, take them through the notorised affidavit process to make those facts the truth in commerce, then you can take them to high court with a commercial lien attached, preferably before they take you to court. If they cannot disprove your allegations, they will owe you 4x what they are falsely demanding from you. :clap:
I know there is a lot to it, but if you read all the way through that thread, you will have a better understanding and be inspired. It is one of the most important threads we have on here as the Affidavit process can be converted to most occasions. It does mean coughing up in notary public fees, in total it cost me £150, but is worth it if your falsely claimed obligation is large enough. If enough of us can get them into open court, the whole house of cards could come tumbling down. They are more likely to settle out of court to avoid exposure.

AD :sun:
S E E F O R Y O U R S E L F

Know yourself and you shall know the truth. The truth shall set you free.
User avatar
ArturoDekko
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby aliensong » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:22 pm

Hey thanks,

I'm going to make time to study the thread this weekend. A couple more questions; do I have to get my skates on with my response in the form of an affidavit, I have heard that it is good to respond within 72 hours to keep the ball in their court as much as possible (the letter was dated the 9th of October), also; is it straight forward getting notary public's to endorse these affidavits? I have heard that a lot of them won't touch this sort of stuff and it can be a bit of a search to find a compliant one.

Cheers.
aliensong
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby huntingross » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:33 pm

Too funny for words.....aliensong's first post (and Rod)......I just got the almost identical letter from Bank of Scotland.....and they accuse us of ripping stuff off the internet.....

They've even accused me of telling them "a Notarial Award has been made"......dumb phuckers....If I dragged something off the internet at least I'd have the intelligence to ensure it had the right words in it.....

They're "under no obligation to provide me with.....the documentation I asked for" BUT if I carry on like this "it is entirely possible that this will cause [me] to breach the terms of [my] agreement"......that'll be the one they don't need to send me then.

I'll have fun writing back to this one.
Success nourishes hope
User avatar
huntingross
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: FIDACH, Near Edinburgh

Re: LTSB letter, response

Postby ArturoDekko » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:55 pm

Enjoy yourself HR. What is wrong with getting things off the internet. They use template forms. Who told them? Someone whose allegiance is to the bankers, that's who. Who can trust that? Give me open source any day.

aliensong, apologies for the delay. Yes it is preferable to write back within three days but if you haven't you can still stay in honour by apologising for the delay, as I have just done. If you are imposing time limits on them in your Notices, it is only honourable to keep to your own time limits. If you leave a half completed process for too long, it would make sense to start again with a strict time schedule but you could quote any past injury you had already established.

My notary thought he was just witnessing my signature, to bring it into the public domain, until I asked hin to witness that he had not received any post from the mortgage bandits. He did a double take, gulped hard and rushed off to check his post. I did not make a big thing about being a Freeman and I did not ask him to perform the administrative process himself as would be preferable. It cost me £50 per doc. but for that I had him stamp and sign a copy too and an extra tenner for a stamp on a promissory note. He only takes cash as he does not want his notarial fees on his solicitors account. I did offer him a promissory note of £1000 to put on account :rotfl: , he looked interested for a while then chickened out.

Is it not strange that they take a Bank of England promissory note when they have absolutely no intention of making good the promise yet they look askance at ours which have more of a chance of being fulfilled? :thinks:

Stay Sovereign, know who you are, know the injury they have caused you, forgive them and love them, then lien the socks off them. :sun:

AD :saint:
S E E F O R Y O U R S E L F

Know yourself and you shall know the truth. The truth shall set you free.
User avatar
ArturoDekko
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales

Next

Return to Banking Crime

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron