Court for Non-Payment of Council Tax

[NoName]

I had my day in the local Magistrates court today. It was the hearing for issuing a liability order for non-payment of council tax... First time ever in court, it was a bit stressful, but hey - no pain, no gain... Not entirely successful, but it was educational. If I could do the day again - I'd get a different result... (I do have an estoppel in place against the council, and will be appealing. I did all the paperwork.)

What I did
When called, I stayed sitting down, and stated the Mantra from V's Freedom book. I fully understand it, it makes sense, and it did get them totally flustered. (They called 2 guards from downstairs to lurk outside the courtroom). When they asked me my name, I said I was Freeman-on-the-land me of the family myfamily. When they asked me my address I repeated the mantra.

I explained that it was my sincere understanding that the liability lay with a legal person, which was a legal fiction, which was not me.

I said that I understood the court to be a corporation, and that corporations require contracts to compel, and that I did not want to contract with them.

They didn't refute any of that. They went out of their way not to discuss anything with me until I entered their jurisdiction - which I didn't do.

Then they left the courtroom for 5mins and came back in - they asked me my name & address again, and I repeated. They then said that the liable person was not in the room. At this point I half-realised what i should say, and said 'I am prepeared to act as the legal fictions agent if I can retain all my rights'. Yep, I know, I got this totally wrong, and should have stated it from the start - and been definite about it - i.e. 'For and on the record I am the representative of that legal person/fiction'. It didn't really sink in until after - when I was thinking 'what exactly just happened there?'. lol.

So from that point on, they proceeded to ignore me and issue the liability order by default. At this point I could only watch. I knew I was beaten...

Lessons Learnt

1) You have to state that you are the agent/representative of the legal person they are referring to, otherwise they can just ignore you, and issue a default judgement as if you didn't show up.

2) When they say the hearing is at 10am - they mean it's sometime after that time - could be be anytime really. I waited almost an hour and a half, I met one bloke who'd been waiting 3 hours. Take a drink, maybe sandwiches. I was told it would be a 5 min hearing, and if it got complicated, they'd adjourn. That didn't happen - they were taking as long as they liked.

3) The hassle involved in doing this is worth it for the experience. The only way to learn is do, and I feel it's worth it to just see the 'worshipful' (lol) magistrates figuring out how to screw you. It's invaluable. Next time, they won't win.

4) They aren't that scary. It wasn't that bad. Would have enjoyed it more if I'd won though. ;^)

[kevin]

It's a learning curve for everyone and thank you for sharing your experience with us, good luck with your next battle.

[markie b]

you should of offered them the legal fiction ie your certificate of birth im not sure but it has been done in the past apparently when they accept you are free then you simply say can i present this to you when they accept it say there is mr blah blah and get it on record aswell

[MikeThomas]

Congratulations NoName! You stood up to be counted and I'm proud of you

Makes you wonder though does'nt it? We are told that we will get unbiased Justice in court, but when it comes to Council Tax the deal is already done before you enter the building. How can it possible be unbiased when the Council HIRE the Court for the day thereby paying the expenses of the Magistrate. Could any one of us hire a Private Court for our own purposes? I doubt it very much.

The bottem line is: The Council provide a service which they charge for, disguised as Council Tax. It's the LAW OF CONTRACT! Did anyone here contract with their council? Did they agree and sign for the services? Did they hell!

And that's the point! Things do cost 'money' but most people would not sanction their hard earned money being used by
un-scrupulous councils to pay the pensions of their employees or to contribute to a corrupt European Union!

[NoName]

Thanks guys... I did question them about the summons when I first received it in a 'Notice of Conditional Acceptance and Request for Clarification'... (note: they did not reply in substance to any of my 9 letters / notices!)

The summons says :'complaint has been made that you, a person liable for council tax, have not paid... You owe £XXX' - so it's unlawful on at least 2 counts:
1) You're guilty by implication. Actually, there seems to be no mechanism for finding innocence in civil cases - you're guilty by default - or the 'complaint' is 'dismissed'. The burden of proof is on the defendant - who is assumed to be guilty - and can only petition for leniency.
2) the Bill of Rights (1689) states ‘That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void’

The point has been made to me tonight (By V) that is I was in the court room, but the liable person wasn't, then I'm obviously not the liable person. Lol. It's a game - a bloody stupid one that we'd all be better off without... Government by psychos.

All interactions between people should be consensual. Always.

[huntingross]

Well done Noname, respect.

The point has been made to me tonight (By V) that is I was in the court room, but the liable person wasn't, then I'm obviously not the liable person.

I think that is the benefit of experience, knowing that you could have jumped right on that....having a cool head in a strange environment.

[NoName]

The 'Notice of Liability Order' arrived last Saturday...

I have written to the court asking for info on how to appeal & file a counter-claim, and also for the transcripts of last Weds...

I have replied to the council thus:

Notice of Refusal of Liability Order

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your ‘Notice of Council Tax Liability Order Dated: 08-JUL-2009’

Again, I notice you have written to the legal person ‘MR NONAME' and not me. I refute that you have any lawful contract either with me, or my legal person.

Please note that I do not accept the courts decision to grant a liability order against the legal person ‘MR NONAME'.

Please also note that I will be appealing the decision, on a point of law.