Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Kev.Cornwall » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:08 pm

Hi all, hoping a few of you further along the path can help me out here.. reckon this could potentially be a big one..
the Legal Fiction similarly named to me was invited into truro magistrates recently (statutes enforced without consent while traveling in my private conveyance, no contract etc), i conditionally accepted as 3rd party representative, claimed commonlaw jurisdiction, went in and was given the offer of getting it over with by pleading guilty, obviously i declined and mentioned no law was broken, then when asked how i plead guilty/not i replied NON ASSUMPSIT, Clerk took it upon himself then to instead enter 'not guilty'... THAT ISNT WHAT I SAID, AND DOESNT SOUND ANYTHING LIKE IT... (im big enough and ugly enough to admit i dont know it all, so just kept quiet and let em make their own choices figuring ill think next step thru when i get home) they thought over all the stuff id pointed out to them, and decided eventully to set another date in two monts time to give themselves time to figure it out, as far as im concerened i left THE DEFENDANT in their care (as id identified to clerk earlier that i'd bought with me the defendant and handed him over-a copy of the birth certificate) I told them that if i return it will again be under common law jurisdiction and i will be expecting to see the oaths of all magistrates and policymen present, obviously im not keen to hang about there any longer, as this was my first real dip of my toes into the waters of taking on the court system, so i wished them all a nice day and off i scuttled (after stopping at reception to serve them a bill for my attendance) when i actually looked at the papers properly (i declined to sign for them) they had changed the defendant from the fictional KEVIN --- to myself kevin of the --- family, HOLD ON, I DIDNT AT ANY POINT AGREE TO SWAP PLACES WITH THE FICTION OR TO BE ASSUMED TO BE 'THE DEFENDANT' surely something else very deceptive has happened here, and most certainly not agreed to by me (to every 'do you understand' i replied i comprehend, asked magistrate one time 'by the way, when you say understand to you mean understand as in comprehend, or understand as in stand under?'..he begrudigingly said-comprehend) surely changing their assumed defendant from the PERSON summoned to that persons reprsentative without even mentioning it is a prety big issue?... got to admit im a bit overloaded with it all at the moment, and would really appreciate a few suggestions as to how to play this now.. (need to take a day to chill out first before diving back in methinks) peace to all, and appreciation for the wisdom so many of you share... Kev
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Wise Haven » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:21 pm

This may be relevant.

Criminal Justice Act 1925 Part II section 33

33 Procedure on charge of offence against corporation. E+W

(1), (2). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F1

(3)[F2On arraignment of a corporation, the corporation may], enter in writing by its representative a plea of guilty or not guilty, and if either the corporation does not appear by a representative or, though it does so appear, fails to enter as aforesaid any plea, the court shall order a plea of not guilty to be entered and the trial shall proceed as though the corporation had duly entered a plea of not guilty.

(4)Provision may be made by rules under the M1Indictments Act 1915 with respect to the service on any corporation charged with an indictable offence of any documents requiring to be served in connection with the proceedings, except in so far as such provision may be made by rules [F3under section 144 of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980].

(5). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(6)In this section the expression “representative” in relation to a corporation means a person duly appointed by the corporation to represent it for the purpose of doing any act or thing which the representative of a corporation is by this section authorized to do, but a person so appointed shall not, by virtue only of being so appointed, be qualified to act on behalf of the corporation before any court for any other purpose.

A representative for the purposes of this section need not be appointed under the seal of the corporation, and a statement in writing purporting to be signed by a managing director of the corporation, or by any person (by whatever name called) having, or being one of the persons having, the management of the affairs of the corporation, to the effect that the person named in the statement has been appointed as the representative of the corporation for the purposes of this section shall be admissible without further proof as prima facie evidence that that person has been so appointed.

It may also be worth reading up on Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 for other snippets of info. Schedule 3, of which, specifically deals with corporations.
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby pitano1 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:21 pm

hi wise haven.

all fiction...person/persons..corparations
pitano1 :grin:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
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ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Wise Haven » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:26 pm

Hey up Pitano,

You got it - persons persons :grin:

The answer is in there if you recognise the real meaning of words. One of the key words in those sections is "representative" - it is key to get the court to recognise you are the representative of the corporation, not the corporation itself.
Also I think agent is a dangerous word because this may create a liability on yourself if admitted or stated instead of being a representative.
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby pitano1 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:34 pm

hi kev.

make sure the name change is in lower, `CASE`,if not get it changed,as it is not you,if it
is still all caps.
pitano1 :yes:

i would at this point like to say,bloody well done,and keep up the good works. :grin:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
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ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby pitano1 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:59 pm

Wise Haven wrote:Hey up Pitano,

You got it - persons persons :grin:

The answer is in there if you recognise the real meaning of words. One of the key words in those sections is "representative" - it is key to get the court to recognise you are the representative of the corporation, not the corporation itself.
Also I think agent is a dangerous word because this may create a liability on yourself if admitted or stated instead of being a representative.

hi wise haven.
when a solicitor..repre..sents,you,is it the fiction,or the,`flesh,and blood.that he/she is representing ?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/represent.
think the answer..is,the solicitor converts us into an entity,that has no brain/rights,but the court can
screw at will.
ps. you are so right,about words,especially in law.
stuck the link in,handy for quick ref`s
pitano1 :shake:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Wise Haven » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:19 pm

Yep!

I can't put my hand on the reference at the moment but from memory.....Seeeking representation reduces you to "child of the state" status - I think the ref is Blacks Law (8th). Certainly gives food for thought.

The best option is to present as either Representative, for the fiction, which allows you appoint advisors or counsel(solicitors, lay counsel) without being reduced to "Child" status or act as Litigant in person (dodgy).
Another option is Mckenzies friend - but that has limitations as outlined in this article: http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1568
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Kev.Cornwall » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:24 am

Thanks Wise Haven, that looks kinda advanced for me at the moment, was hoping just to call them to order under common law rather than loosing myself in their world of acts etc, but will try and get my head round that at least, cheers. (oh, mentioning blacks law by the way, i found a torrent file of editions 1-8 complete and zipped, will post it when im back to home computer)
Pitano, yeah its still all captals, wouldnt i be better to leave that as captals so when i go in i can still say 'that isnt me, im not capitalized'... got a bit more reading up yet beofre i send reply, but a big thanks to everyone for the pointers.
Cheers all
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Kev.Cornwall » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:52 pm

found the link to blacks 1-8 byb the way:

http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/5418353/Blacks%20Law%20Dictionary%20Editions%201-8.html

will post it in main forum too
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Re: Clerk/magistrate changed plea & defendant. FRAUD?any ideas?

Postby Prajna » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:15 pm

tut tut, Kev, I don't think we post torrent links in the forum (unless it is for something that is out of copyright). And if you do that then it is good to post a magnet link direct to the file instead of going on tracker sites that always have pop-up windows and stuff; a magnet link looks like this: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:MORNM2D7ZNC6AD36W65UQ7F2WWXP73DJ
FREEDOM Best Before: 11 Sept 2001
http://tomboy-pink.co.uk/ and http://DeclarePeace.org.uk/
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